tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post6242603220015870013..comments2024-03-19T00:28:50.450-07:00Comments on Necropolis Now: Witchcraft and Paganism: What's the difference?Caroline Tullyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18295336008587199702noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-86721774924045240762008-12-19T17:31:00.000-08:002008-12-19T17:31:00.000-08:00Thanks for a very clear and much needed clarificat...Thanks for a very clear and much needed clarification. I agree with you that the misconceptions most probably will continue for a while yet, but from the academic perspective it is much needed - and on a social and cultural level certain European countries could also use a clearer understanding of all of the above. Keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-64807429163576514612008-11-24T02:17:00.000-08:002008-11-24T02:17:00.000-08:00Valerie that is a very interesting comment. I agre...Valerie that is a very interesting comment. I agree that I am mainly talking about Neo-Pagans in Australia. I find that 'Pagans' believe that Wiccan ritual is the 'format' for the ritual of ancient pre-Christian religions. The only ones who do not think this tend to specifically call themselves things like 'Heathens' or 'Reconstuctionists' which defines them from 'Pagans' who they see as using this Wiccan format of ritual. Otherwise it does tend to be that the term 'Pagan' or 'Neo-Pagan' equals magical-circle format attempted Wicca. This might not be so in the USA, but from my experience it is very much so here.Caroline Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18295336008587199702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-65506472108307185842008-11-20T17:07:00.000-08:002008-11-20T17:07:00.000-08:00In the U.S.A., the Pagan revival is much more hete...In the U.S.A., the Pagan revival is much more heterogeneous than what you are describing. Plenty of the Pagan folk here have only vaguely heard of Wicca, or have read a couple of books but aren't interested in participating. Of the latter, some prefer some other style of ritual, whether learned from someone or developed by themselves; others do no ritual, but simply talk with the Deities, make offerings--say, flowers--at the base of a favorite tree, etc.<BR/><BR/>Some of the more cloistered type Wiccans still assume that "Pagan" means "potential Wiccan" or "would-be Wiccan," but this misconception is corrected by any extensive contact with the larger Pagan community.<BR/><BR/>American NeoPagans sometimes learn from non-European living traditions, as well--Santeria, Voudoun, Native American ways, for example. Like a number of my Wiccan friends, I have been a guest at a number of traditional Lukumi ceremonies. Further, I know a dozen or so Caucasian NeoPagans who have joined in Native American community rituals--at least one Caucasian Pagan I know is a traditionally-taught pipe-bearer.<BR/><BR/>I wish that traditional Wicca had proper terminology to distinguish between Wiccan-oriented and non-Wiccan-oriented Pagans. At present, most of the Wiccan-oriented Pagans simply call themselves Wiccans. This sometimes upsets Wiccans who are actual initiates. <BR/><BR/>Some initiates refer to non-initiate Wiccans as "cowans," but most Pagans use "cowan" (if they use it at all--it's often considered an insult) to refer to persons with no interest in Paganism. Some try to solve the confusion by using the term "muggle" or "mundane"--neither of which is particularly complimentary, either.<BR/><BR/>Until we have better terminology, I expect the misconception that all or most "not-elsewhere-classified" Pagans are Wiccan-oriented to continue. Meanwhile, Wicca does continue to be the most visible of the Pagan paths; but I suspect that Wiccan-oriented Pagans are no longer in the majority, and the initiates are far fewer than that--say, 5% as a ballpark estimate.Valerie Voigthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01079446169152862513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-51888004787280946982008-11-14T14:49:00.000-08:002008-11-14T14:49:00.000-08:00Tiara, you said, "Witchcraft doesn't necessarily n...Tiara, you said, "Witchcraft doesn't necessarily need a religious basis."<BR/><BR/>I am specifically talking about Wiccan-inspired contemporary Witchcraft, not about folkloric witchcraft that appears in many different cultures. That is really a different thing to neo-Pagan Wiccan Witchcraft.Caroline Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18295336008587199702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-63832365071039336922008-11-13T09:49:00.000-08:002008-11-13T09:49:00.000-08:00I think your first paragraph is perfect. I always ...I think your first paragraph is perfect. I always thought this sistem of four elements/four directions as a "wiccan creation".<BR/><BR/>Is terrible to know that still have people who thinks that Wicca and other Neopagans religions come to nowadays directly from pre-christian people, without no influences.Inês Barretohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15869751807131464796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-84612796978160174452008-11-10T23:18:00.000-08:002008-11-10T23:18:00.000-08:00I've always understood Wicca to fall under the umb...I've always understood Wicca to fall under the umbrella of Paganism, which encompasses most spiritual practices that aren't Abrahamic (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) or descended from such religions (Baha'i). Witchcraft is more a practice of magic that is occasionally incorporated into other religions but can stand alone - aside from the usual Pagan Witches, there are also strong witchcraft cultures within some Abrahamic religions (where I come from there is a strong Islamic Witchcraft practice within traditional Malay people). Witchcraft doesn't necessarily need a religious basis.Tiarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04727840054929301428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-41051099599620601222008-10-31T03:40:00.000-07:002008-10-31T03:40:00.000-07:00I'd cite my honours thesis but it hasn't b...I'd cite my honours thesis but it hasn't been published :) I am working on a paper from it though, and I'll let you know once that is finished. However you will find info on this in Regardie's Middle Pillar (Regardie, I., Cicero, C. & Cicero, S. T. The Middle Pillar, Llewellyn, St. Paul, Minnesota, 2003, p179 and in Greer's Inside A Magical Lodge (Greer, J. M., Inside a Magical Lodge, Llewellyn, St. Paul, Minnesota, 1998, p17).<BR/><BR/>You'll have to wait for my paper to find out the sources the GD had for the ritual :) though I can tell you it has a Jewish connection.<BR/><BR/>Morgan LeighThe UQ Religionistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14703299364085875513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-63624084242972194272008-10-31T01:54:00.000-07:002008-10-31T01:54:00.000-07:00That's very interesting, can you give me a citatio...That's very interesting, can you give me a citation? I do believe that soem cultures - native American for example - did turn to the Four Directions, but I don't think its historically accurate in Wicca.Caroline Tullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18295336008587199702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8188095128035151601.post-40695890781270486112008-10-30T00:18:00.000-07:002008-10-30T00:18:00.000-07:00Yes, you are correct. The circle rituals used in W...Yes, you are correct. The circle rituals used in Wicca are derived from the Lessor Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, which was a creation of the Golden Dawn. I have found some info re the practice of addressing the four directions in ancient Egyptian religion. Interestingly they used to start facing North, but later changed to East. In the description I found they seem to be imagining a goddess, possibly Nut, and describe where the parts of her body are. I would be interested to hear if anybody knows why they did this or can give me any more info on these practices in ancient Egypt. <BR/><BR/>Morgan LeighThe UQ Religionistshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14703299364085875513noreply@blogger.com